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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Printing Records and Subrecords with PrintString (Read 14782 times)
walt
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Re: Printing Records and Subrecords with PrintStri
Reply #15 - Sep 13th, 2004 at 10:55pm
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Hi

No doubt that HTML is flexible, versatile etc. etc. But as a developper in FileMaker Pro for the last 7 years, I have yet to have a project not requiring reports several pages long. Any report 2 pages long or more requires a header to repeat elements labels on each page. Smart programmers like Mark and yourself should be able to trick the Report Writer and HTML to allow a page header. But as you say
.

Sincerly Cheesy

Serge


Any progress on this yet?
All our Q&A application users rely heavily on multipage column reports.

Without controlled positioning of headers, footers and page numbers, we can't sell them on Sesame applications.

I thought most other Q&A users also needed these reports, but based on the lack of discussion on this subject I'm beginning to think I misjudged and that capability will remain missing.

It would be nice to finally know so I can decide whether to hang in there or cut bait.

???
  
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Carl Underwood
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Re: Printing Records and Subrecords with PrintStri
Reply #16 - Sep 14th, 2004 at 12:08am
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Walt,

Your browser should be able to print Page Numbers for you. But I agree that column headers at the top of each page are needed.
  


Carl Underwood
CDU Computer Consulting LLC
Epsom, New Hampshire
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Bob_Hansen
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Re: Printing Records and Subrecords with PrintStri
Reply #17 - Sep 14th, 2004 at 12:41am
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Using Mozilla 1.7.2 provides ability to create headers and footers when printing. 

Can do Headers, Footers, Left, Right, Center justification.  Auto insert date, time, custom line contents.  Can shrink to fit page, and can toggle background colors/images on/off.  Can do Page # of #. and URL.

MSIE does have ability for Header and Footer line, but only has 2 options vs. 6 for Mozilla.

Many other reasons to use Mozilla, but that is another discussion. Grin
  



Bob Hansen
Sesame Database Manager Professional
Sensible Solutions Inc.
Salem, NH
603-898-8223
Skype ID = sensiblesolutions
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Hammer
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Re: Printing Records and Subrecords with PrintStri
Reply #18 - Sep 14th, 2004 at 10:51am
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Any progress on this yet?
All our Q&A application users rely heavily on multipage column reports.

Without controlled positioning of headers, footers and page numbers, we can't sell them on Sesame applications.

I thought most other Q&A users also needed these reports, but based on the lack of discussion on this subject I'm beginning to think I misjudged and that capability will remain missing.

It would be nice to finally know so I can decide whether to hang in there or cut bait.


We're still fighting the problem that HTML doesn't really know what a "page" is, as defined by a printer. CSS2 supports some page commands, but none of the browsers support them. *sigh*

We do know how to put page headers and footers in. The problem is that the only way to do so in Windows is to temporarily change the registry, then put it back. This is something we don't approach lightly. In addition, all the browsers want the headers and footers specified as a very cryptic and strange micro-language which most users will not know how to use. *sigh again*

We know that some of you want this. We recognize the value of the feature. We're still looking for a good way to do it. 

BTW, I notice you have emphasized page numbers. Your browser generally adds Page x of y to the top of every page by default. If this is the sticking point, that part isn't usually a problem.
  

- Hammer
The plural of anecdote is not data.
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walt
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Re: Printing Records and Subrecords with PrintStri
Reply #19 - Sep 14th, 2004 at 11:00pm
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Using Mozilla 1.7.2 provides ability to create headers and footers when printing.  

Can do Headers, Footers, Left, Right, Center justification.  Auto insert date, time, custom line contents.  Can shrink to fit page, and can toggle background colors/images on/off.  Can do Page # of #. and URL.

MSIE does have ability for Header and Footer line, but only has 2 options vs. 6 for Mozilla.

Many other reasons to use Mozilla, but that is another discussion. Grin


Thanks Bob & Erika,

But I don't see how this resolves the COLUMN headers problem. All I'm looking for is what Q&A has been able to do for the last 20 years. I know this isn't Q&A but assume that with over 20 years of software evolution since then someone could figure out a way to copy that capability?

Forget HTML, browsers, Godzilla, etc. Just get back to basics. I'm afraid that whatever you ultimately end up with on this track is going to be a real Rube Goldberg for an inexperienced application user.

Incidentally Erika, you say "I know that some of you want this". Does anyone have any numbers on what percentage of Q&A users bought it because of it's column report capabilities, or are you refering only to Sesame users?

I just don't understand how you can sell a DBMS that produces column reports without fixed position headers. Gotta be missing something.
  
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Hammer
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Re: Printing Records and Subrecords with PrintStri
Reply #20 - Sep 14th, 2004 at 11:42pm
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Incidentally Erika, you say "I know that some of you want this". Does anyone have any numbers on what percentage of Q&A users bought it because of it's column report capabilities, or are you refering only to Sesame users?


The word "some" was not intended to be dismissive or substitute for a precise quantification. I simply meant that some people have told us that this is important to them. Others don't miss it. Still others have not mentioned it all. Considering the huge number of features at this level contained in both Q&A and Sesame, I'd imagine it would be quite difficult to get an accurate percentage based on such a specific item.

Quote:
I just don't understand how you can sell a DBMS that produces column reports without fixed position headers. Gotta be missing something.

I could list again the benefits we got in trade for some of the "page" based features, but I don't think it would make any difference. If the ability to print column headers at the top of each page of a report is the make-or-break feature for you, then that's how it is. You know your application requirements and what your priorities are.

I'm sorry you're frustrated that we don't have this particular capability. Product development involves making a lot of choices. No matter what choice we make, the Bell curve tells us that a few people will absolutely love it, a few people will absolutely hate it, and most will fall somewhere in between.  In this case, we made a choice, and it's not the right one for you. I wish we could meet all requirements all the time in a way that everybody thinks is great, but we can't. I can only say that we know this is something you want, and if we can find a way to provide it in a future version, we will.

On the upside, however, version 1.0.5 has the Preview toolbar button you asked for.  Smiley
  

- Hammer
The plural of anecdote is not data.
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Re: Printing Records and Subrecords with PrintStri
Reply #21 - Sep 21st, 2004 at 7:46pm
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I said this long ago, but will say it again for the record.  I liked Q&A and converted an office into believers.Grin  Yes it  had its limits.  but with only a lttle help from the manual I could print to disk screen, or paper.  I could print forms to my style and reports that did not need to be exported to excel or a word processor to be tidied-up.  I like some of the other above miss these simple features. 
And when you cant get multiline headers,  set colume widths, set alignments or formats easily, you do get discouraged.
Cry
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Carl Underwood
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Re: Printing Records and Subrecords with PrintStri
Reply #22 - Sep 21st, 2004 at 8:17pm
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...cant get multiline headers...

If you use the Property Editor in Designer to set the width of the header's LE to a size that is smaller than the text in the header, the text will wrap to more than one line.

Edit:
You may need to set the Group Body LE to that width also. Otherwise, if the data text is wider than the header text, the column may adjust to the data width if not set.
  


Carl Underwood
CDU Computer Consulting LLC
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Hammer
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Re: Printing Records and Subrecords with PrintStri
Reply #23 - Sep 21st, 2004 at 8:36pm
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Also, 1.0.5 adds the capacity for multi-line headers/footers and multiple group breaks.
  

- Hammer
The plural of anecdote is not data.
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Carl Underwood
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Re: Printing Records and Subrecords with PrintStri
Reply #24 - Sep 21st, 2004 at 9:00pm
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Foster,

I almost forgot. You could also place "<br>" (less than sign, B, R, greater than sign) in the LABEL for the header LE.

Example:
First<br>Name

Will produce:
First
Name

And if you liked the way Q&A put "=======" under the headers, you can do something like this:
First<br>Name<br>====

To get this:
First
Name
====

You may need to adjust the number of equal signs (or any other character you may use) to get the correct look.
  


Carl Underwood
CDU Computer Consulting LLC
Epsom, New Hampshire
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The Cow
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Re: Printing Records and Subrecords with PrintStri
Reply #25 - Sep 21st, 2004 at 9:45pm
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And when you cant get multiline headers,  set colume widths, set alignments or formats easily
Cry
Foster 


The property editor allows you to set widths, alignments, and formats. Nor does it require you to learn (read: memorize) a multitude of single letter codes, indeed it even provides live examples of the formatting. I know that for those of you who have been using Q&A for 15+ years, that having to type something like:
2,AS, SC, ST, C, T, H(25:My Column Header), F(JC, U), TL
... then pressing Shift-F6 to select fonts and text formatting actually does come naturally and easily to you. However, a newcomer might find it quite daunting, as opposed to (for example) clicking BOLD on a list of available text formats.

And while HTML reports may on occassion need to be "tidied-up" in a word processor or spreadsheet - at least they can be. The only way to import a Q&A report into anything other than Q&A is by printing to file, and then you have to go through and get rid of all the places where there are blank lines and repeated column headers for each "page" in the file because they don't correspond to the page breaks in your word processor. Not to mention having lost all the formatting information in the process.

Something to consider is that, for much of the current business world (including small business), a report printed on paper is absolutely the last thing anyone wants. Reports have become an active principle - a document. We have a number of Q&A clients who have to deliver reports to their customers. The comment we most often hear is that, while they like being able to do their work in Q&A, their customers consider the reports produced by Q&A to be unacceptable. They just aren't "pretty" enough. The customer wants it via email. They want to import it into Excel and resort it by different columns. They want to forward it to their boss and three colleagues after annotating/amending it. They have little to no interest in printing it, because they really don't want paper. These are all real world business requirements that Q&A just can't meet. Sesame, as a current product, needed be capable of handling the "active" quality of today's reporting requirements. 

Over and beyond pagination issues, a report is not just a table anymore. Reports often need to be accompanied by additional charts, spreadsheets, and explanatory text, summaries, and conclusions, cover sheets, and occasionally indexes. Nevermind tables of contents. Many times, the contents of a report need to be folded into and combined with the reports of others  as they progress, being edited, amended and appended.

Being able to make a simple table is a good thing. And being able to do so simply is also good.  But having to renumber all of your columns if you insert a new column - isn't simple. Having to remember numerous pnuemonic (and not so pnuemonic) codes, isn't simple. Having to type that code into a field that cannot accomodate it (try typing in a radio button or a choice list) isn't simple. Being completely unable to use my report for anything other than a printed table, is frustrating beyond all else.

Hammer here: Here's a actual real world example. Last week, Bill Halpern asked me for some figures. I pulled up my Sesame database and ran the report he wanted in Preview. When it came up in my browser, I hit the Send Page button, put in Bill's email address and hit Send. Done. He had a nicely formatted report in his email, where he could look at it however he wanted, including using his browser to instantly make the text larger. And I didn't have to print it out and fax it to him!  Grin

In addition, if he wanted, he could immediately forward it to the accountant, search inside it for a particular item using his browser/email search function, or drop it into the business plan he was creating in Word. No muss, no fuss, no bother. 

-- The Cow and Hammer (together)
  

Mark Lasersohn&&Programmer&&Lantica Software, LLC
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pineberry
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Re: Printing Records and Subrecords with PrintStri
Reply #26 - Sep 21st, 2004 at 10:35pm
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   Something to consider is that, for much of the current business world (including small business), a report printed on paper is absolutely the last thing anyone wants.

Evidently my customers and I are no longer in the business world. They still want printed reports.
  
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walt
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Re: Printing Records and Subrecords with PrintStri
Reply #27 - Sep 21st, 2004 at 10:54pm
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  Something to consider is that, for much of the current business world (including small business), a report printed on paper is absolutely the last thing anyone wants.

Evidently my customers and I are no longer in the business world. They still want printed reports.


Gotta strongly agree with Pineberry.

Sounds like the tail wagging the dog.
We rely heavily on Q&A column reports for our own business, as do the users of our applications. If we told them "a report printed on paper is absolutely the last thing anyone wants", we'd get thrown out the door.

  
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Bob_Hansen
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Re: Printing Records and Subrecords with PrintStri
Reply #28 - Sep 21st, 2004 at 11:20pm
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I fully agree too.  Paper reports are wanted by almost everyone I work with.

Need some report features that are not available right now?  Use any other writer of your own choice that you may have now.......How?  Use ODBC.

Do you have any stand alone Report Writers (Crystal, Target)?  Do you have any other programs that have built in Report Writers(Access, FoxPro)?

Use an ODBC link to Sesame from Access, Crystal Reports, FoxPro, Target, etc.  Now use their tools to generate your reports.

  



Bob Hansen
Sesame Database Manager Professional
Sensible Solutions Inc.
Salem, NH
603-898-8223
Skype ID = sensiblesolutions
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Hammer
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Re: Printing Records and Subrecords with PrintStri
Reply #29 - Sep 22nd, 2004 at 11:31am
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Please don't take our statements to mean that we are not still working towards a way to get the "page" oriented functions for you. We know that you are frustrated that column headers don't repeat at the top of each page when you print to paper.

However, I'm frustrated too. I've spent years listening to Q&A users and consultants express dissatisfaction with Q&A reports. I've spent years listening to my clients pass on the complaints of their customers about Q&A reports. I've spent years creating workarounds, batch files, macros and specialized exports to produce the output required by customers.  It's frustrating to me that the tremendous functionality provided is dismissed as worthless because of page header issues.

When we made this choice for Sesame's reports, we were making a choice  designed to open up what we could do in the future. This choice has provided a huge amount of functionality and almost infinite expandability, including (given a little time to do so) the implementation of the "page" functions.
  

- Hammer
The plural of anecdote is not data.
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