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Steve_in_Texas
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[RESOLVED] Server has detected a low memory issue
Nov 8th, 2010 at 4:51pm
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We've been getting this message a lot lately, and it usually results in a crash of the server with all applications locked. It happens often when I export or import a large batch of records. (more than 10,000 records.)

Our server is running Dual Xeon Quad-based processors on a 128GB SSD Drive. Memory installed is 8GB with Task Manager showing 6GB free.

What is causing this and how do we prevent this?

Sidenote, it appears that Sesame only runs on 1 or 2 of the CPU cores, and users are often 'waiting' on sesame to finish a big mass update, or import/export. Can we speed things up a bit?
« Last Edit: Apr 1st, 2011 at 3:22pm by Hammer »  
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Re: Server has detected a low memory issue...CRASH
Reply #1 - Nov 9th, 2010 at 3:12pm
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Steve_in_Texas wrote on Nov 8th, 2010 at 4:51pm:
We've been getting this message a lot lately, and it usually results in a crash of the server with all applications locked. It happens often when I export or import a large batch of records. (more than 10,000 records.)

Our server is running Dual Xeon Quad-based processors on a 128GB SSD Drive. Memory installed is 8GB with Task Manager showing 6GB free.

What is causing this and how do we prevent this?


Sesame is a 32 bit application. As such, it can only use 2 GB on Windows and 4 GB on Linux. If you have 8 GB, it becomes more likely that it can use that full amount, because it need not share as much with other applications, the OS, etc. Are you importing/exporting 10,000 total records, or 10,000 parent records (and many children per parent)?

Quote:
Sidenote, it appears that Sesame only runs on 1 or 2 of the CPU cores, and users are often 'waiting' on sesame to finish a big mass update, or import/export. Can we speed things up a bit?


Sesame server will use one "main" thread, two additional threads per connected client, and then a new thread for each command issued to the server. It is up to the OS to allocate processors to these threads. It may be that the communications threads are running on separate processors, but are waiting around for messages to come in, so they don't use much CPU time. Identical commands, like those that comprise an import or an export, can't run in parallel. So you may be waiting, if you have lengthy commands that everyone is attempting to run at the same time. The more diverse the activity, the more parallel Sesame server will become, because you don't have different command threads competing for the same resources, and having to wait for each other.
  

Mark Lasersohn&&Programmer&&Lantica Software, LLC
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Re: Server has detected a low memory issue...CRASH
Reply #2 - Nov 9th, 2010 at 11:30pm
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Mark,

Thanks for the info. We finally graduated from several Q&A databases into a couple of mammoth sized Sesame applications. So now that we have all of our 'eggs in one basket', I'm concerned about these server issues.

The 10,000 + records that I import/export are all parent records. No child records in this batch. Usually, if I try to export or import more than 18,000 records, it will always crash the server, so I have to export in small batches. What a pain.

Regarding the 'wait time'; Most of our users have buttons on their forms to run xlookups and xpost into other databases throughout the day. Should we look into limiting xlookups in our office, or perhaps sit tight and hope for a 64-bit version of sesame?

Thanks,
Steve

  
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Re: Server has detected a low memory issue...CRASH
Reply #3 - Nov 10th, 2010 at 12:49pm
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Steve_in_Texas wrote on Nov 9th, 2010 at 11:30pm:
Mark,

Thanks for the info. We finally graduated from several Q&A databases into a couple of mammoth sized Sesame applications. So now that we have all of our 'eggs in one basket', I'm concerned about these server issues.

The 10,000 + records that I import/export are all parent records. No child records in this batch. Usually, if I try to export or import more than 18,000 records, it will always crash the server, so I have to export in small batches. What a pain.


How much actually data is exported, in bytes? How many fields per record?

Quote:
Regarding the 'wait time'; Most of our users have buttons on their forms to run xlookups and xpost into other databases throughout the day. Should we look into limiting xlookups in our office, or perhaps sit tight and hope for a 64-bit version of sesame?

Thanks,
Steve



There is a 64 bit version of Sesame 3.0. No release date yet. 64 bits will allow you to make better use of your RAM, which in your case will speed things up. Are you swapping?
  

Mark Lasersohn&&Programmer&&Lantica Software, LLC
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Re: Server has detected a low memory issue...CRASH
Reply #4 - Nov 10th, 2010 at 3:42pm
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Mark,

I can successfully export 55,679 records when running standalone, or client/server on MY PC only with no other aps loaded, but not in client/server with several aps loaded across our wired network. My export file is 43MB and contains 106 fields from a flat database.

I don't know how to tell if the server is swapping, but I'll learn up on that and get back to you. (unless you know an easy way to tell).

Thanks!


  
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Re: Server has detected a low memory issue...CRASH
Reply #5 - Nov 13th, 2010 at 4:18pm
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Steve_in_Texas wrote on Nov 10th, 2010 at 3:42pm:
Mark,

I can successfully export 55,679 records when running standalone, or client/server on MY PC only with no other aps loaded, but not in client/server with several aps loaded across our wired network. My export file is 43MB and contains 106 fields from a flat database.

I don't know how to tell if the server is swapping, but I'll learn up on that and get back to you. (unless you know an easy way to tell).

Thanks!


A flat database shouldn't be accumulating much memory at all on an export. There must be something else going on here. Was this database ever not flat?
  

Mark Lasersohn&&Programmer&&Lantica Software, LLC
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Re: Server has detected a low memory issue...CRASH
Reply #6 - Nov 13th, 2010 at 5:26pm
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The database is a Q&A translation. It has no subforms, but I may have added, and then deleted a subform long ago; I don't recall.

Let me know if there is something I can do to test or rebuild the 'integrity' of the database.
  
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Re: Server has detected a low memory issue...CRASH
Reply #7 - Nov 13th, 2010 at 7:25pm
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You could watch the server process in task manager or one of the sysinternals tools while it is performing the export to see how its memory usage is expanding.

If you believe that there is a structural problem, you could dump all of the data to a text file, retranslate/rebuild the application with no data, then reload the data. Make a backup first.

If you wish, I could take a look at it this weekend. Compress the .db and .dat files using zip and email them to me (laser@HammerVE.com) or support (support@lantica.com).
  

Mark Lasersohn&&Programmer&&Lantica Software, LLC
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Re: Server has detected a low memory issue...CRASH
Reply #8 - Nov 13th, 2010 at 7:56pm
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Thanks Mark. I'm emailing it now 12.8MB zipped. No problem if you can't get to it.

Steve
  
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Re: Server has detected a low memory issue...CRASH
Reply #9 - Nov 13th, 2010 at 8:34pm
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I ran some preliminary tests and don't see any significant or out-of-scale memory usage. Did you try monitoring it on your server using task manager? Keep your eyes open for any task (not just Sesame) that is swelling its memory usage as Sesame is exporting. Are you running any kind of file scanner (like a virus scanner) that might be reacting poorly while a file is being written? Also, during the export, there are two stages. One while it prepares for export and then the actual export. During which of these stages does the memory event happen?
  

Mark Lasersohn&&Programmer&&Lantica Software, LLC
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Re: Server has detected a low memory issue...CRASH
Reply #10 - Nov 13th, 2010 at 8:36pm
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I'll watch it this week and let you know.

Thanks again.
  
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Re: Server has detected a low memory issue...CRASH
Reply #11 - Nov 15th, 2010 at 8:26pm
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Mark, Task manager had nothing unusual to report. During the export of all fields, for 1/2 of the records in my database, Sesame memory usage climbed from 430,000K to 550,000K, then dropped back down when finished.

The performance meters showed total CPU usage move from 4% to 20%, then back to 4%. PF Usage seems to remain steady at 1.99 GB.

There is not much else running on this server, and no programs 'swelled' in memory usage during the import/export. Also, I did not get the 'memory low' message today. Perhaps the weekend reboot kept the issue at bay.

I'll monitor it throughout the week.

Steve
  
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Re: Server has detected a low memory issue...CRASH
Reply #12 - Nov 16th, 2010 at 1:22am
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update: I tried to export ALL records. about 60% through the 'preperation phase', The server crashed. Sesame client only reported that it lost connection.

I watched memory usage in Task Manager (on the server, as before) and it stayed within the numbers I reported earlier, but I did notice 'dumpprep.exe' showed up on the list just prior to the crash.

Any thoughts?

Steve
  
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Re: Server has detected a low memory issue...CRASH
Reply #13 - Nov 16th, 2010 at 2:05am
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update again:

on the Server computer, in standalone mode: I exported all records (2 batches to avoid a crash.) Deleted all records from sesame. Imported all records back in (both batches). Tried to export ALL records...crashed!

(Server log shows 'out of memory')

I give up.
  
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Re: Server has detected a low memory issue...CRASH
Reply #14 - Nov 16th, 2010 at 1:34pm
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I see two mysteries here. Why is your server using 400~500 MB of memory. When I run the same app, my computer ranges between 80 Mb and 200 Mb for an export. When the export completes, the memory is returned. And second, even if it is using 500 MB of memory, why is that an out-of-memory condition, when there should be between 1.5 GB and 4 GB available.

I assume you are seeing the same behavior on any machine you try?
  

Mark Lasersohn&&Programmer&&Lantica Software, LLC
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