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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A big project (Read 21717 times)
John_Y_Cannuck
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Re: A big project
Reply #15 - Feb 17th, 2005 at 6:29pm
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This is like learning French!  Roll Eyes I guess the QA4 learning curve was a bit steep too, but that was 15 years ago, when my brain still fired on all cylinders.
??? ???
Could I please have that in english?
I've got a nice child field, looks really nice, BUT, the data refuses to come across, all the fields are still blank!

I go into search and update, hit F10 and that pulls up a five grave lot. But the subform, shows no burials, and I know the data for that lot has at least four separate burials with twenty or so fields each.
  
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The Cow
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Re: A big project
Reply #16 - Feb 17th, 2005 at 7:20pm
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John,
In Q&A you have (for simplicity's sake) two flat databases. Lets call them database A and database B. The records in database B, are "related" as children to the records in database A. In Q&A, that "relationship" is caused by an XLookup statements in Q&A Basic that find some of the records in database B, while you are looking at a single record in database A. This is done (usually) by field matching. In other words, there is a field in A that has a value that matches a particular field in B. In Q&A this doesn't really move the record from B to under the record in A - it can just retrieve information from the record in B - because Q&A is entirely flat.

In Sesame, you can have subform and sub-databases. So you translate A and B into Sesame - you end up with two flat databases and two flat forms. You can then merge B into A, creating a single application file containing both A and B, both still flat. So you create a subform field on A and tell it to contain records from B.

All well and good, and from what I've read so far on this thread, this is where you are now. But there still has to be a way for the A form to know which B records should appear under which A records. In Sesame there are two ways for this to happen: "natural linking" and "relational linking".

In natural linking sub-records appear under a parent record because that is where they were created in the first place - there is no need for matching "key" fields or anything else - it got made here, so here it stays. Natural linking can't immediately help you because your records have already been created elsewhere.

In relational linking (an option available when you created the subform field on the parent form) you tell Sesame which field on the parent and which field on the child need to match for a record from B to appear under a record in A. Sesame then dynamically finds and displays all of the correct B records each time you view an A record. It does this by running through the B database looking for those B records that have the same value as the specified field in the current A record.

You probably don't want to use relational linking permanently because it is slower and does require maintenance. But you can set up your system to use it once - to find the right subrecords, then using the ASCII export save that relationship. Then you can rebuild your subform field with natural linking and import the data back in.

1. Translate A.
2. Translate B.
3. Load A into Sesame.
4. Merge B into A.
5. In SDesigner, Create a subform field on A's form that contains B's form.
6. Tell SDesigner that you want it to be a relational subform and tell SDesigner which fields need to match (one field on the parent form and one field on the subform).
7. In runtime, using the export spec, export all of the fields on the parent and child to a file.
8. In Runtime delete the records from the child form and from the parent form, using mass delete.
9. In Sdesigner remove the subform field from the parent form. Then, recreate it just like you made it before, but this time select "natural linking" (the default), instead of relational.
10. In runtime, do an ASCII import from the file you created when doing the export (step 7).

When step 10 is completed, you will have the correct child records under the correct parent - naturally linked.

I know that I am being more conceptual than specific, but once you understand what is going on, the specific steps get a lot easier. The most important thing is understanding that you need to tell Sesame some way to determine which subrecords appear under which parent. In you case that may be a "lot number" field that needs to match on the parent and the child.
  

Mark Lasersohn&&Programmer&&Lantica Software, LLC
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John_Y_Cannuck
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Re: A big project
Reply #17 - Feb 17th, 2005 at 7:51pm
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Because ofthe way our lots are laid out in QA4, the address to the lot using four fields, what we intended, and I have done on the sample database I am working with, is establish a field, called "Code". That field will be the same, for the Lot, and every burial in the lot. The "code" field will also apear in every other database related to that lot.
The intent was to use that "code" field to accomplish the linking. 
  
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John_Y_Cannuck
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Re: A big project
Reply #18 - Feb 18th, 2005 at 1:52am
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The Cow
I tried to export, but could only export from the form, the subform still contains no data, and thus there is nothing to export. ???
  
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Bob_Hansen
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Re: A big project
Reply #19 - Feb 18th, 2005 at 2:49am
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UNTESTED PROCESS FOLLOWS HERE

Any chance that you could combine all four databases into one database in Q&A first?  If all are subsets of Main database, then this might make sense.

Make a copy of your main database, NewDesgn.dtf, with all records intact.

Add additional pages for each of the added on databases (AddOn 1-4).

Programming/Reports/Saved Specs, etc. will still need to be brought in from Q&A from the added databases.  Could duplicate now, or do later in Sesame (May be easier to duplicate now in Q&A). 

POST from each of the added on databases into the new fields on the combined database NewDesgn.dtf.   Do Post from AddOn1.dtf.  Repeat POST for AddOn2-4.)

Then rename fields as needed so names in programming, reports, etc. will get changed before translation.  Check for restricted field names.

When done will have one Q&A database to be translanted into Sesame.  After translation, look at log, fix as needed.

Before proceeding, Make a copy of the new Sesame database. 
(If it does not work as is, you many still be able to delete the parts that don't work, Merge another copy of the original just copied, make new database2, deleting what you don't need, and repeating Merges of original to create databases 2-4. (I may have lost you here, but is perfectly clear to me). )

Now in your working Sesame application you can make sub forms within the Main database for each of the original Q&A databases.

---------------------
Just tossing it in as an option.  Other more rational minds may come up with many reasons why this won't work......

Before doing this work, make a sample database in Sesame first, with just 2 or 3 fields from each database in one combined database, then try the subforms to see if this may be a solution.


  



Bob Hansen
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Sensible Solutions Inc.
Salem, NH
603-898-8223
Skype ID = sensiblesolutions
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The Cow
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Re: A big project
Reply #20 - Feb 18th, 2005 at 1:03pm
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The Cow
I tried to export, but could only export from the form, the subform still contains no data, and thus there is nothing to export. ???

That takes us back to steps 5 & 6
Quote:
5. In SDesigner, Create a subform field on A's form that contains B's form.
6. Tell SDesigner that you want it to be a relational subform and tell SDesigner which fields need to match (one field on the parent form and one field on the subform).

If, after you complete step 6, you go into runtime and do a search on the main form (A), and you do not have the subrecords you expect under the main form - something went wrong in the relational linking. Check your key values in the main form and in the subforms and make sure that they do indeed match. Use Sesame's search capabilities to test for this. In any case, do not proceed to the export until you can see the correct subrecords under the parent form in runtime.
If everything looks right, but you still don't see your subrecords showing up, shoot an email to support@lantica.com. Ray will get it and either find and fix the problem or forward it to me.
  

Mark Lasersohn&&Programmer&&Lantica Software, LLC
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John_Y_Cannuck
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Re: A big project
Reply #21 - Feb 18th, 2005 at 4:13pm
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Thanks for the offer, i may have to go that route, But, rather than get someone to do it for me, I like to muddle through. I find when i do that, I understand it better, and am able to fix mistakes I make in the future.

What i just tried, was to mass delete (worked). Then I exported the data to a standard ascii format from QA4.
The data came in, when i imported it, but the fields are all messed up wrong data appearing in the fields, and the subform did not fill, again.  Undecided
Learning experience. Roll Eyes
  
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John_Y_Cannuck
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Re: A big project
Reply #22 - Feb 18th, 2005 at 4:16pm
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Bob
The amount of programming, particularly in my flowersheet , and endowment databases is massive. Manually re-entering it would take me weeks of dedicated hammering with my two fingers.
  
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Re: A big project
Reply #23 - Feb 18th, 2005 at 4:30pm
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Quote:
Thanks for the offer, i may have to go that route, But, rather than get someone to do it for me, I like to muddle through. I find when i do that, I understand it better, and am able to fix mistakes I make in the future.

What i just tried, was to mass delete (worked). Then I exported the data to a standard ascii format from QA4.
The data came in, when i imported it, but the fields are all messed up wrong data appearing in the fields, and the subform did not fill, again.  Undecided
Learning experience. Roll Eyes


Don't export from Q&A - translate the Q&A databases to Sesame first, merge them, put a subform LE on the main form, specifying that it is relational linking, go into runtime (at this point you should see the correct records in your subform), export from Sesame (so it will be a hierarchial export!) - then mass delete (in Sesame), go into SDesigner and remove the subform LE, and replace it with a naturally linked subform LE holding the same subform, and go into runtime and do the import.

Other than cleaning up LE names and other "prep work", none of this should be done inside Q&A.
  

Mark Lasersohn&&Programmer&&Lantica Software, LLC
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John_Y_Cannuck
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Re: A big project
Reply #24 - Feb 18th, 2005 at 4:38pm
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Well, it's not me...
I just went through the proccess without using any qa4 data, and everything works fine. It's something to do with the fact that the data came from two separate qa4 databases.
  
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John_Y_Cannuck
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Re: A big project
Reply #25 - Feb 18th, 2005 at 4:42pm
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I posted the above, before I saw The Cow's post. I don't want to mislead you, the qa4 export, was just an experiment. I have translated the data.
  
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Ray the Reaper
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Re: A big project
Reply #26 - Feb 18th, 2005 at 5:08pm
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Quote:
Thanks for the offer, i may have to go that route, But, rather than get someone to do it for me, I like to muddle through.


Hello John,

We would simply use your DB file to better explain how to do this and to help guide you, not to actually do it for you.

-Ray
  

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ryoxall@lantica.com
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John_Y_Cannuck
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Re: A big project
Reply #27 - Feb 18th, 2005 at 9:55pm
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I can't send you the actual data. There is a Federal Privacy Law that forbids it. I can however send you the database with false data, that I could easily construct. I'm off for the weekend, I'll try to get to it first of the week.
  
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Ray the Reaper
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Re: A big project
Reply #28 - Feb 18th, 2005 at 10:08pm
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Fake data is perfect, just as long as it is in the same format as the real data.

-Ray
  

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John_Y_Cannuck
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Re: A big project
Reply #29 - Feb 21st, 2005 at 7:37pm
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Ok, I took the real data, all the names for the search last name C.. and modified their information, I then cleaned up the data, and imported it to Sesame.
This is clean, unmodified data, not the stuff I've been messing with.
I have not added the field to "link" the Lot owners data base to the burial register database, in case you came up with an easier way to do it.
What I had planned, was to enter a field named "code" into the lot owner data base, filling it using Mass update, then using a student over the summer, get them to enter the number from each "code" field in the lot owner database, to the coresponding "code" field in each burial in the "burial Register" for than lot.
I am sending the files attached to an email with the heading Files For Ray--- Thanks  Smiley
  
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