Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Checkboxes,any way to make them 2 "state" (Read 3034 times)
beagle
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Checkboxes,any way to make them 2 "state"
Aug 21st, 2004 at 3:49am
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Hi Just a quickie,

Is there anyway to make checkboxes 2 state (yes or no)

Currently they are 3 state (yes / no / don't know)

I have set element restrictions in my application to yes or no as valid entries - however this frustrates some of the users.

Many thanks in advance
  
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Hammer
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Re: Checkboxes,any way to make them 2 "state"
Reply #1 - Aug 21st, 2004 at 11:17am
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You can use programming to force the value.

Something like:
If MyCheckbox <> 1
{
       MyCheckbox = 0
}
  

- Hammer
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Steve_in_Texas
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Re: Checkboxes,any way to make them 2 "state"
Reply #2 - Aug 21st, 2004 at 3:55pm
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Checkboxes are tricky in sesame. User's keep 'missing the target' with the mouse. I've tried to make the box bigger, and even made the LE size bigger (box stays small, but 'field' around box was large), but it only helped a little. The boxes are unpredictable. Can you give us a little more leniency?

Check boxes in HTML web pages are excellent. They seem solid and predictable. They have a 'target area' larger than the actual box so the box is more 'forgiving'.

Thanks

Steve
  
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Hammer
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Re: Checkboxes,any way to make them 2 "state"
Reply #3 - Aug 21st, 2004 at 4:30pm
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Steve,

The secret to resizing a check box is to make the height and width the same. You can make them as large as you want.
  

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Steve_in_Texas
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Re: Checkboxes,any way to make them 2 "state"
Reply #4 - Aug 21st, 2004 at 4:53pm
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Erika,

My last post was confusing. I am not having trouble making the box bigger.

The problem is that the check boxes don't have an easy 'target area' so users try to put a check in the box, and if the curser is not exactly on top of the box, nothing happens.

The boxes don't have a "solid", predictable feel to them becuase the user doesnt realize their mouse pointer is not exactly sitting directly over the box.

I see the check boxes on this website have a faint blue outside edge, giving the user a larger target to hit. If the mouse if off by a pixel or two, they can still get the check mark to 'land in the box'. This makes the box very reliable.

Does that make sense?

Steve
  
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Hammer
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Re: Checkboxes,any way to make them 2 "state"
Reply #5 - Aug 21st, 2004 at 5:08pm
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Quote:
Checkboxes are tricky in sesame. User's keep 'missing the target' with the mouse. I've tried to make the box bigger, and even made the LE size bigger (box stays small, but 'field' around box was large), but it only helped a little.


I answered as I did because you described having trouble making the checkbox itself larger and said the users had too small a target. I wanted you to know that you can indeed make the checkbox area itself as large as you wish by resizing the element equally. Doing so will require less precision on the part of the user. Rather than us making a "live" area around the box that, in effect, makes the box pretend to be larger than it is, you can make the box itself actually larger. I would think that an actually larger box would be more predictable than a box which invisibly pretends to be larger, especially if they are placed close together.

The checkboxes in HTML and in many other programs cannot be reliably resized (ususally they can't be resized at all), therefore, they have to do tricks like you describe to make up for their inability to be made larger. Sesame's checkboxes can actually be made as large as you wish, so there should be no need for such tricks. 

In addition, the "solid, predictable" behavior you mention is entirely browser dependent. Checkboxes may behave as you describe in IE, but they do not have that extra "live" zone in Netscape.
  

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Steve_in_Texas
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Re: Checkboxes,any way to make them 2 "state"
Reply #6 - Aug 21st, 2004 at 5:30pm
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Thanks for the explanation. I'll take a closer look at my forms and see if I can pinpoint why our users are having trouble with the boxes.



Steve
  
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Bob_Hansen
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Re: Checkboxes,any way to make them 2 "state"  Deg
Reply #7 - Aug 21st, 2004 at 9:00pm
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You can just drag any of the 4 corners and resize the checkbox.  Or as suggested earlier, you can change the width and height to the same size, then drag corner to make it easy to resize to a user friendly size. 

Default checkbox is WxH = 20x18. 

If my normal fields' H=18, I have found that changing the checkbox to 30x30 gives a reasonable size for the user.  These WxH values can be changed in the Property Editor, Tab for Look/Position.
  



Bob Hansen
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Sensible Solutions Inc.
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603-898-8223
Skype ID = sensiblesolutions
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beagle
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Re: Checkboxes,any way to make them 2 "state"
Reply #8 - Aug 22nd, 2004 at 1:57am
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Hi,

thanks for the programing approach - did'nt think of that - D'oh!  Roll Eyes
  
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Steve_in_Texas
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Re: Checkboxes,any way to make them 2 "state"
Reply #9 - Oct 4th, 2004 at 7:43pm
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I tried Erika's suggestion to Beagle to make my check boxes '2 state' but didnt have any luck. My program reads:

If ThisElement <> 1 then ThisElement = 0 in both Element Change and Element Immediate Change. No results.

Also tried the same thing using the actual element name, but still no results.

Maybe check boxes dont trigger Element change events?

Any thoughts?

Shall I wait for 1.0.5 before posting any more issues I'm bumping into?

Thanks,
Steve


  
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beagle
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Re: Checkboxes,any way to make them 2 "state"
Reply #10 - Oct 5th, 2004 at 3:17am
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Hi Steve,
I used Erika example & it works perfectly using an "on exit" event to trigger the state of the checkbox.

However it does require the user to actually enter & then exit the checkbox.

I feel that the nature of check boxes is that they are likley to be used with a mouse, which may mean that the checkbox does not get entered or "exited from" & the event is not triggered.

So basically I set up some programing in a mandatory field that is filled in later than the check boxes that basically says

"If checkboxname  is not = yes then checkbox = NO"

This programming was repeated for each checkbox

I also set my checkboxes initial value to "undecided" so that it only takes one click to set the checkbox to "yes"

This seems to work quite well
  
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Steve_in_Texas
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Re: Checkboxes,any way to make them 2 "state"
Reply #11 - Oct 5th, 2004 at 3:23am
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Thanks Beagle.

However, putting the program into 'On Exit' isn't going to work for me. I have a form with 50+ check boxes and the user needs to select 10 or so for each of the 3000+ records. Use of the mouse is critical to this form.

Sesame should be able to handle this just fine provided the mentioned program can fire from "on element immediate change".

I suspect its a bug and hopefully ver 1.0.5 will be the cure.

Thanks for your feedback.

Steve
  
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beagle
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Re: Checkboxes,any way to make them 2 "state"
Reply #12 - Oct 5th, 2004 at 4:46am
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Hi Steve I think I understand what you are trying to do.

You have a group of check boxes that you want to be either YES or NO with the user just clicking on the ones that are required to be yes.

If you set the initial value of each checkbox to UNDECIDED (this means that the user only has to click on the checkbox once to set it to YES).

Then program a mandatory field later in the form (after the check box section) to recognise the state of the checkboxes.

Those checkboxes that are NOT set to YES are automatically set to read NO.

Then your users would not have to click through each checkbox individually.

You also guarantee the outcome by removing the UNDECIDED option.

The downside to this method is if you have 50 checkboxes you will need 50 lines of code (a more elegant solution is beyond me at the moment)


Hope this helps



  
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