Normal Topic XPOST problem (Read 1560 times)
Bob_Hansen
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XPOST problem
Mar 12th, 2004 at 11:02am
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I have searched the forum but no one has posted any problems with XPOST.  But I have been spending hours trying to make a successful XPOST of numbers to no avail.

If I am posting a string to a string field it appears to work OK.  But I have been unable to post a number to a number field.

The XPOST process actually is working, I am not getting an Error message, but the original values in the destination elements are wiped out to 0

Examples are here:

Quote:
XPOST(@FN,vStock,"frmParts!ID",vItems,"Items","REPLACE")      
IF@ERROR THEN { WriteLn("Error posting items to StockRoom") }
This line posts OK, vItems is a string. and destination "Items" is bound to a string

Quote:
XPOST(@FN,x,"frmInvty!ID",vCount,"Locn","REPLACE")      
IF@ERROR THEN { WriteLn("Error posting Count to Locn")
This line zeroes out the destination "Locn".  vCount is a number, and  destination "Locn" is bound to a number.

I have used @ToNumber(vCount) to make sure it was a number.  I have tried converting the number being posted to a string with @STR(vCount) and that does not work.

Originally I was trying to replace the value in Locn.  Having problems, I ended up using the following values for final operation option : "ADD", "REPLACE", and "".  All trials end up with a value of 0 in the destination field.  "x" and "vStock" are numbers and the ID elements are bound to numbers.

I have used WriteLn in a number of places to confirm all the variables are correct.

I have saved the DSR to another DB, same results.

Has anyone else had this XPOST problem with numbers?

  



Bob Hansen
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Sensible Solutions Inc.
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Hammer
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Re: XPOST problem
Reply #1 - Mar 12th, 2004 at 1:28pm
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This is fixed in 1.0.2.
  

- Hammer
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Bob_Hansen
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Re: XPOST problem
Reply #2 - Mar 12th, 2004 at 8:45pm
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The response to my problem:
Quote:
This is fixed in 1.0.2.
Thank you very much.

I would like to repeat a request made on 12/29/03:
Quote:
How about providing a Forum Topic named known problems, and provide details about workarounds/status?  Read Only, maintained at your end.  Create some type of status ranking and update status as known.

This is ridiculous to have to spend hours of time trying to use features that are known not to work!  What other functions have problems? I am sure there are over 40 functions that I have not tried to use yet.  I cannot continue to waste hours of time that I can never get back.  And that waste could have been prevented.

Your honesty is commendable, you don't have to admit it is known, you could say thanks for pointing that out.  I respect that, but I am also expecting you to look out for our interests as customers. 

This is not a beta testing cycle.  We have gone through almost 3 years of testing.  This is a released purchased product and I think that we have a right to know what does not work.

I have been holding back many issues, trying not to be negative.  I feel that responses to my observations are defensive and have become adversarial and so I have avoided asking questions.  I want this forum to be a positive upbeat area for cooperation.

Being told that a problem is already known, and that it has been corrected in the next release does not help deliver products that are due or overdue already.  And then there is no projected date for next release.  There is no patch being offered until the next release is available.  I have commitments to my clients and you are making your problems into my problems.

Many people are using Sesame for themselves, but there are others like myself who have planned on using Sesame to develop solutions for other end users.  The tolerance level has to be lower by necessity.

Sorry, I am rambling.........back to the issue:

======================================
I would like to see a list of know problems, 
What are the workarounds?

You must have a list of what is being corrected in 1.0.2.  This could be used as a minimum list of Know Issues.  Each item could be categorized as a Fix to a Known Problem, an enhancement to an existing feature, or a new feature.  You also have a list of items that will slip into the following release, and that is added to daily.  Some of those are also Known Problems.

I have done everything I can to make this product a success, maintaining a loyalty to the Lantica staff, avoiding any public negative comments about the product, but I am highly frustrated at the moment.    And I have already waited eight to calm down.  My original posting was at 6am in the morning, up all night because I was trying to diagnose this specific issue and make it work for presentation today.  (Now postponed till ?)

I was thinking of making a limited list myself by searching the forum and making a database of "Known Problems", creating a topic for this, and trying to maintain it.  But I don't have time to do work that can be and should be done by others.

We don't need to know about planned enhancements or new features, just need to know how we can use our time more effectively.

I apologize in advance if anyone at Lantica is offended.  At this point I am just venting, so more defensive comments are not needed.  I would just like to see a real list of Known Problems that is maintained. 

Lots of ways to do this:
1.  Make a Sesame application on the WebSite that we can browse. 
2.  Make a Sesame application available that we can download.  Post a notice when it is updated. 
3.  Or send as attachment to those who request to be on the mailing. 
4.  As a minimum, provide something on this site that we can read and monitor.

Thanks for listening.  (Maybe tomorrow will be a better day).
  



Bob Hansen
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Sensible Solutions Inc.
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Re: XPOST problem
Reply #3 - Mar 12th, 2004 at 9:21pm
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There is a known bugs page at http://www.lantica.com/Support/sesame_workarounds.html. We don't put every bug on it, but we try to list those that people are likely to run into. If we left out the wrong one, I apologize. Many times, when we post that something you mention has been fixed in the next release, it's because we found out about it and fixed it when you mentioned it.

As to being defensive, what you see as defensive, we may see as simply presenting another side of the issue. You (collectively) have the right to complain about things you don't like, make suggestions for changes and wish out loud that we'd done things differently. I hope that you will grant us the right to take into account the opinions of those who don't post on Forums, to point out aspects of a particular methodology or choice that you may not be aware of, to attempt to correct factual errors and to advocate the many positive aspects of our product.

We appreciate your support, Bob, and we don't consider you to be an adversary. We apologize for those things that frustrate you. We know that there are improvements to be made and things we could be doing better. There always are and always will be.  We do try to be available to you as you encounter frustrations and we try to respond promptly to questions and problems posted here. 

At the moment, we are trying very hard to get 1.0.2 prepped for release, and have been paying more attention to fixing the problems, rather than listing them.  1.0.2 has significant fixes and added features and we want to give it to you as soon as possible. I wish there were more of me, but, unfortunately, there is only one of each of us.

If you do want to gather a list of the known issues covered by 1.0.2 from the Forum, that is the kind of helpful thing that the core members of the user community often do, and is usually much appreciated by both the user community and the technical team...
  

- Hammer
The plural of anecdote is not data.
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Bharat_Naik
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Re: XPOST problem
Reply #4 - Mar 12th, 2004 at 9:37pm
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Bob, I knew this was going to come from you!! Unfortunately, this is confluence of many things to go certain way to lead to this kind of problem. Most of bugs are somehow uncovered during the discussion on the board. This being an exception, it probably reported through e-mail or support phone call, so it did not come to the notice of this forum.  Moreover, version 1.0.2 is probably ready to come out any day now and if it would have been out, this could have been avoided.  All these could have happened in very short frame of time and updating the list of known bugs could not be done before you toiled your way through this bug. You might have also pushed a little too hard to make it work and did not think that it could be a bug. Erika did respond very quickly, honestly and openly without any reservation. Good part is that now you know xpost command inside out and i have yet to learn and use it.  Grin
  
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Bob_Hansen
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Re: XPOST problem
Reply #5 - Mar 12th, 2004 at 10:12pm
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Quote:
We don't put every bug on it, but we try to list those that people are likely to run into.
How do you decide if someone is going to run into it?

I understand that every product has bugs.  I know that it takes longer to test a product than to create it.  But you should expect that every function is going to be used by us.

If any function/feature does not work, we should know that.  Tell us "DO NOT USE THIS FUNCTION - IT WILL NOT WORK - SAVE YOUR TIME!  Sorry about that, Help is on the way."

The current page of Work Arounds indicates that there are  5 work arounds for Known Problems in 1.0.2. , but no indication of how many Known Problems there are.  I guess there are only those 5.  Great!  This page is wonderful for those five items.

But the page title is properly identified as Work Arounds.  If no workaround, and no additional listing of Known Problems, then I must conclude that I am doing something wrong.  You don't usually need a workaround until you have a known problem.  Since it must be me then it is not really a problem, why look for a work around?

The logic when something does not work is:
1. Is this a Known Problems?
___No, then goto step 2.
___Yes, then are there any Known WorkArounds?
_______Yes, then implement WorkAround
_______No, Save Time, do not try to do the impossible.  Wait for WorkAround,  patch, or permanent fix.

2.  Get help from users forum.  Problem resolved?
____Yes, go back to work happy, say Thank You.
____No, add to Known Problems, develop Work Around, develop patch, develop permanent fix.


Walt's example of 511 fields is a good example.  I now have between 80-100 items to check for/to do as part of the translation process.  I had to add that to my check list of translation steps.  Plus I will now add to check for "Xposting number functions" to flag them as non-functional.

=============================
Enough on the subject.  I asked again, and I received a timely answer.  Thanks for the feedback.   I now know how I must react to this issue.




  



Bob Hansen
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Sensible Solutions Inc.
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603-898-8223
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Hammer
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Re: XPOST problem
Reply #6 - Mar 12th, 2004 at 10:56pm
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Quote:
For example, in my post of 2-14-04 (What happened to the speed) I mentioned problems I was having in translating a QA database containing 1005 fields.

Many observations were offered but none referenced the following bug just posted by Jerry Frazier...

Maximum fields in Q&A to be translated on: Mar 10th, 2004, 6:19pm 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"If you are converting Q&A files to Sesame, there is a known bug if the number of fields in the Q&A file exceeds 511....The file appears to convert correctly but in my case, I could not add or update any records in the Sesame file.  Hope this saves someone some time!"

If its a KNOWN bug, known to whom? Shocked

In this particular case, the actual bug which is "known" was tracked down about two weeks ago and looks something like this:
Code
Select All
The do_command loop is allocating only 2048 arguments. This limit may be exceeded by certain operations. Changed to dynamic allocation.  


When Jerry contacted Tech Support, we made the connection that his problem might be a side effect of the behavior above, because we'd recently been looking at it in response to a different issue. I can only apologize for not making that connection in your case, Walt. When we fixed the problem, it didn't really occur to us that your earlier problem was related. Since your post talks about compile speed, rather than crashing, I'm not sure it actually is related. I assure you that Mark and I are not deliberately attempting to "fool" you.  I dearly wish we had the luxury of assigning someone to dedicate all day to updating various lists, web pages and reference materials, but we just don't. Mark and I take care of those maintenance tasks as we get a chance.

Again, we understand that it's frustrating. We promise that we will try to dedicate more time to making sure that you are kept informed, but I hope that none of you truly believe that the same people who dedicate so much time to watching this Forum for people having trouble, to implementing many of your fixes and feature requests within hours of your requesting them and to making sure that you have a direct channel to the actual developers are somehow interested in deliberately wasting your time.

Speaking purely personally, I'm saddened by the implication. We expect that every user isn't going to like every technical choice we make, but I  have always tried to be available to and above board with this user community, far more so than many developers, who put layers of marketing people and gatekeepers between themselves and their users.

I'll make every effort to get the Known Bugs page updated this weekend, although the 1.0.2 release and accompanying change log is higher on my priority list right now.
  

- Hammer
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Re: XPOST problem
Reply #7 - Mar 12th, 2004 at 11:13pm
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Quote:
When we fixed the problem, it didn't really occur to us that your earlier problem was related. Since your post talks about compile speed, rather than crashing, I'm not sure it actually is related.


The two problems are not related. The problem with > 512 fields is involved in the grouping of data as it passes from the engine to the form and only occurs in cases where there are more than 512 fields and more than 512 of them have data being passed to the form, for *that* form. It would be noticed while stepping through records.

The problem Walt had was in the compile time that takes place when a form is opened. By having a lot of fields each with a small amount of programming, the compile time was taking unusually long. As a workaround it was suggested to walt that he consolidate his programming, eliminate unused fields, and make use of user defined functions and subroutines to reduce the compile time. Additionally, for 1.0.2 - I changed how it works so that it only compiles once per form, saving the the compiled code when the form is closed.
  

Mark Lasersohn&&Programmer&&Lantica Software, LLC
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BOBSCOTT
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Re: XPOST problem
Reply #8 - Mar 13th, 2004 at 12:03am
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I know there is always room for improvements in customer service.

I know that there are always better ways to accomplish a task.

I know that you can only try to attain perfection not get perfection.

I also know that I have NEVER met a group of people that care so much about what they are working on as the people of Lantica and the people trying to use Sesame. It is amazing to me how much everyone, developers and users care about getting the best results. So even though people get frustrated and people get upset it just proves to me that the people on this forum care more then most and this will only lead to a better result for us all.

As far as the Lantica team goes , I wish my customer service did half as good a job as you guys and gals do. I have never worked with an organization that even comes close to the level of support you people offer.

And to anybody out there that is about to accuse me of being impartial or anything worse save the effort of writing. It is truly the way I feel.   
  

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